Storytelling to Create Demand-side Change in Education

Kevin Stoller, CEO of Kay-twelve, a school furniture provider, and Board Chair of the Second Class Foundation, joined me to discuss the importance of reimagining learning spaces in the broader effort to transform education. Kevin shared how his work in creating adaptable school furniture drove him to create a new docuseries on school spaces titled “What We Show Them.” You can watch episode 1 here.

Michael Horn:

Welcome to the Future of Education. I'm Michael Horn, and you are joining the show where we are dedicated to a world in which all individuals can build their passions, fulfill their potential, and live a life of purpose. And to help us think through how we can better do that, particularly in the K12 education system. Delighted that we have Kevin Stoller. He's the CEO of Kay-Twelve. That's spelled K-a-y twelve spelled out so not the normal sort of K12 that you often see. He's the author of the book Creating Better Learning Environments—after my heart—about how do we can think about space and architecture and the furniture inside of places to better facilitate learning. And he's also behind the Second Class Foundation's new docu-series called “What We Show Them,” which we will get into in a little bit in this episode. But first, Kevin, great to see you. We were on a podcast in the midst of the pandemic as I recall together talking about some of these things. It's good to see you here.

Kevin Stoller:

You too. Thanks for having me. You are one of those change makers in education that I always talk about. So I learn a lot from you. I love all the work you're doing. So I just really appreciate you having me on.

Reimagining School Spaces 

Michael Horn:

Well, very, very kind of you to say, but I'm excited to learn from you today because you've got a lot of things going. But let's, let's start high level. Introduce yourself to the audience. Like, the premise behind your work more broadly has been what?

Kevin Stoller:

So it's really been around how do we improve education? And I got into this in total, total by accident. I always say that. I ended up. I never thought I was going to be anywhere near education. To me, school was just something you get through. And then I somehow landed in my career of owning a school furniture company. And I still remember the moment where my mindset shifted when I was just walking into really the most ordinary type of school anywhere in the country, happened to be in my backyard when I was living in Worthington, Ohio, and walked into the lobby. And this time something felt different. Something felt different. I went to go check in with the principal that I was going to meet with, and I just felt there's this, like, buzz coming from this one wing of the school. Like there was this, like, almost like electricity coming. And he comes out and he's one of those. One of those principals that just like everyone, like, looks up to and loves. He just makes everyone feel great. It's one of those where it's like people want to move into the boundaries of his school so your kids can go, yeah. And he just smiles. And he's like, follow me. And I'm like, what? I'm like, what is going on over there? And he shows me. Brings me into a classroom and shows me a teacher. And she goes, watch this. And she has all the students kind of in a U shape around her, and they're all paying attention, and she explains what they're going to do today. And then all of a sudden she does like a clap, like a break, like they're breaking from their huddle and they go. And they immediately go into groups of three or four working together. One kid you would see, like, break away from the side and start doing some solo work just trying to comprehend something, then come back in. She would just kind of dance around the classroom and all of this would happen. And by the end, there'd be presentations that would happen in there. And then she'd bring them all together and wrap it up. And it was the first time that I realized I'm like, oh, crap, I don't own a school furniture company. Like, my this actually matters. And it was like the moment where, like, we need to figure out how to do this, because these straight rows of classrooms facing the front of the room, like, that's all I knew school was. And that was really the turning point that shifted us from having a school furniture company to having a mission driven how do we improve education company.

Michael Horn:

Very cool. Very cool. Yeah, I've had that experience now a couple times where I've spoken to school furniture companies or design companies or whatever it is, and I got lucky enough to take Vince Scully's class in college. And you just realize so much of how we relate to each other is because of the space in which we inhabit together. And we don't even think about the impact on mood, collaboration, all these patterns. And you're right. Like, if you reframe it, you can all of a sudden be part of that change and create that dynamic, exciting environment that you got to see that day in Ohio. It sounds like.

Kevin Stoller:

Yeah, it really was eye opening to me because it was, you know, like the engagement level that you start seeing in there. And, you know, and that was only the first part of the story, because the other part is we did this in four classrooms. So we were trying out this new furniture in four classrooms, and we go to the other three, and the other three literally would have X's with painter tape of saying, this is where your chair has to go and you cannot move it.

Michael Horn:

Oh, okay.

Kevin Stoller:

So. So it was really like the entry of, like, oh, wow. I can see where it can go. But I also see that this is a much bigger, bigger initiative here, because this isn't just about changing out the furniture. This is about how do you really change the culture and how do you really drive things from the leadership level and, you know, and really changing the perception of what school could actually look like. 

Michael Horn:

All right, I have to tell one more story because it's now fun, because my kids, they go to a Montessori school and they're now in fourth grade, but they call the type of school traditional schools that I went to and my wife went to, they call it schools with desks, because to them, that's what it looks like, right? So, like, you went to a school with desks. Let me get this. Like, why did it work that way? And I'm like, I can't really explain to you why, but anyway, there we are. So then you have the Second Class Foundation, where I think you're the board president, and they are launching this docuseries. Tell us about this organization and how it intersects with your work.

Extreme Makeover: School Edition